The worst butt marking...ever.

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John25
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Re: The worst butt marking...ever.

#11 Post by John25 »

Some simple steps to cure this:

1. Ask the marker if something is wrong, stiff target, are you ill? Etc.

2. If there is a butt officer ask him/her to sort it

3. Switch to channel 16 and tell the range office that you are experiencing problems.

4. When you get a good marker, get their number and book them privately.



When I shoot I very rarely have marker problems because step 1 often works.

Don't suffer poor marking, report it as soon as you have the problem.

When I worked in the Range Office it was fairly regular that a shooter or club would complain that they had poor marking but had not reported it. It is too late for anyone to help you if you wait until the session is over.

I have the names of some decent markers. PM me.

stgeo
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The Cupcake Kid
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Re: The worst butt marking...ever.

#12 Post by The Cupcake Kid »

Something certainly needs to be done to nip this in the bud. Unfortunately, because the NRA weren't paying enough attention to their financial arrangements, they have lost some good markers.

But that can't be their excuse for supplying bad markers, especially at the prices they charge the shooters. So, what can we do to help change the situation, apart from complaining (which may or may not do any good in the short term).

One thing I often do is make sure I'm there early enough to meet the marker, say hello and give them an overview of what we're doing and how we'd like the target marked. This gives us an idea of their experience (and attitude!) and anything to build a relationship must help! If they do a really good job we might even give them a few quid as a tip at the end.

We shouldn't need to do this to get good service, but the alternative is we waste a lot of time and money and nothing changes.

If we are going to complain then perhaps we need to do it in an organised way, e.g. an email to the range office each time cc'd to whoever else might help to change things and keep a record of the number of complaints with someone on this forum?

The McQueen marking on Siberia is another issue altogether! I've had 10 shots called as 9 when at least 3 shots were touching and it's been obvious they would all have been there. Unfortunately, on that occasion, the RO backed up the marker which was surprising and very frustrating. I've seen plenty of other shooters have the same problem. I don't know why this keeps happening but the only quick fix I can think of is to use multiple targets for each match so there are fewer shots to mark on each one.

Just thinking out loud...
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John25
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Re: The worst butt marking...ever.

#13 Post by John25 »

Quite right, I should also have said talk to the marker, ask the range office if he/she is about before you go to the firing point.

You can then brief them on your requirements.

I should also have said that it can be very hard physically to yank a target for over three hours.

When you have a break or change shooters, tell your marker and give them a few minutes 'off line' too.

Try and work as a team, most of them are 'good guys' and some are even shooters themselves.
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shugie
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Re: The worst butt marking...ever.

#14 Post by shugie »

I was wondering who the markers were, once when I marked at Short Siberia the next targets were being marked by a bunch of student types who were swearing and cursing to the extent that a complaint was submitted to the range office about them by one of our lady members.

On Sunday morning 'our' marker was marking for us and at least one other group, and it was very slow. As there were only a few of us, it was not too bad, but I would have got another detail in if this person had been marking for just us. I think they were a bit short of markers.

What is the going rate for a marker?
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John25
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Re: The worst butt marking...ever.

#15 Post by John25 »

shugie wrote:
What is the going rate for a marker?

Fifty quid, the NRA takes a cut for the revenue man.

http://www.nra.org.uk/common/files/rang ... harges.pdf
Gun rhymes with fun.

We are constrained only by the rules of safety and our own imagination.


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rox
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Re: The worst butt marking...ever.

#16 Post by rox »

John25 wrote:When you have a break or change shooters, tell your marker and give them a few minutes 'off line' too.
Definitely. I make sure I only send message 1 when I am completely ready to fire (even after dry shots etc). To that end, at the start of the session I ask them to always patch-out then leave the target up when I send message 12s, and to raise the target at the start of the session in advance of message 1. Shooters can then do all of their firing point prep without needing to send message 1 and having the marker waiting 5 minutes for the first shot. Equally important to send message 12 as soon as possible after the last shot has been marked. I see a lot of people forgetting to do this. Looking after the marker *usually* results in a more pleasant day at both ends of the range.

..
Dougan
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Re: The worst butt marking...ever.

#17 Post by Dougan »

John25 wrote:Some simple steps to cure this:

1. Ask the marker if something is wrong, stiff target, are you ill? Etc.

2. If there is a butt officer ask him/her to sort it

3. Switch to channel 16 and tell the range office that you are experiencing problems.

4. When you get a good marker, get their number and book them privately.
1. That's when we started scoring 1s within an inch of the edge of the target....

2. Like I said - we thought we were talking to the supervisor.

3. This is what we should have done.

4. I'll talk to my club about this, cheers.


I was in two minds about posting this thread, as I, and my club are sympathetic to the markers - we only switched to paid markers last season, as some of our members are not up to marking themselves anymore - for this reason we generally tolerate slow marking, and always try to let know when there's a delay (even just between details sometimes) - but as the title says...this occasion was the worst.

The last time I complained was last season - We were on century, and the marking was really slow, and although marked correctly the score was sometimes wrong - So I went down to see what was going on - there were two small (one tiny) teenage girls on the target, so I watched a few shots, and they were actually really trying; but struggling badly and getting quite fed up - so I introduced myself (i've since found out that you're not supposed to do this), and said I'd help them for a bit and show them how to score - in my mind, I was thinking 'it won't take me long to show these youngsters how to do it' - then came the next shot...and I could hardly pull the target down by myself! ( :roll: ) - I went to the supervisor and explained the situation...not complaining about the markers but the target.... and he swapped some of the markers around.

That said I, have also seen markers listening to ipods and watching their phones the whole time instead of the bank - which is where most of the 'message 4s' come from.

It isn't something that can't be sorted - markers need to be physically capable and well organised...this means employing good staff, especially the supervisors - they need to be motivated...which means paying them properly...now it's taxed, £50 is not enough - And the conditions need improving...especially the maintenance of the targets.

I know it's all down to money, but this should be a priority - shooters will tolerate a lot (all be it with plenty of moaning :P ), but the quality of marking can have the biggest effect on a days shooting.
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John25
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Re: The worst butt marking...ever.

#18 Post by John25 »

It is only in competitions like the Imperial where you are not allowed in the butts.

For 'normal' shooting, and when I held an 'official' position, I would always encourage it.

For Century, one of your club could still be the supervisor 'helping' the paid marker if he or she is struggling.

I know how frustrating it is to suffer poor marking, it spoils your concentration and ruins the day.

Some markers, sadly, have no interest and lack the ability to concentrate and give the service for which they are being paid.

You should have no qualms about reporting poor service, either on a forum or direct to the NRA.

Sacking the odd poor marker keeps the others on their toes and it is not unusual for a good marker to want rid of a poor one as they distract the conciencious and make things difficult for those who are keen to perform.

I never received a formal 'report' from a marker but I did get a few thick hints, and I did fully support a supervisor who wanted rid of a slacker.

Knowing the current staff as I do I can happily confirm that nothing has changed there.

You could always ask me but I'm expensive, you have to buy me beer!
Gun rhymes with fun.

We are constrained only by the rules of safety and our own imagination.


John


http://www.bisleyshootingservices.co.uk
Dougan
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Re: The worst butt marking...ever.

#19 Post by Dougan »

Was at Bisley yesterday, and the marking was much better; and seemed so for other shooters down the range too.

In the morning we had the best marker we've probably ever had - fast, accurate and not a single message 4 - It was great, we could shoot with a good rhythm, and some of got our best scores in ages - we also finished the competition with plenty of time to spare, which gave some the chance to do some load testing, and me and my old man even had a plink with the Mauser...

...at the end of the morning, when we stood the marker down, he wished us an enjoyable lunch...at which point we figured that after our complaint a few weeks ago, we may have been given the 'VIP' treatment...if that was the case, then we are very grateful to the range office :goodjob:

The afternoon wasn't quite the same - Again we had a very pleasant marker; a young lady this time...she was on the ball, and gave feedback on the shot placement of a couple of misses (some were having problems with new sights) without us even asking....but the operation of the target itself was slow, and it was obvious, even from 600 yards away, that it was a difficult target to pull down....

....I know it's expensive, but the repair and maintenance of the targets needs to be prioritised for the sake of the shooters and the markers alike...
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Re: The worst butt marking...ever.

#20 Post by Christel »

Dougan wrote:
....I know it's expensive, but the repair and maintenance of the targets needs to be prioritised for the sake of the shooters and the markers alike...
Some oil and some time normally work wonders... tongueout
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