NRA continue IPSC bid

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John MH

Re: NRA continue IPSC bid

#21 Post by John MH »

The Cupcake Kid wrote:
John MH wrote:Shooters who support the NRA, are NRA members and currently use the facilities at Bisley
That includes me. I shoot shotgun and rifle disciplines, the same as you. I want to see investment and improvement in all areas. You seem to be saying the NRA should be investing money in rifle disciplines over shotgun. Why? Shouldn't every type of shooting have decent facilities?

Every shooting discipline should have decent facilities but look at the numbers. 49 selected TS as their primary discipline, so not much dedicated support form the current membership. How much revenue do TS events generate for the NRA?; so far this season (Oct to Feb) the NRA has received approx 500 CSR league match entries that’s about £13,500. I'd much prefer to see the profit earned from that spent on improved rifle shooting facilities and maybe an ETR, than on dedicated PSG facilities that can be shot almost anywhere in the UK.
John MH wrote: The membership are the NRA, they should have a say in where NRA funds are spent and what direction the NRA should move in.[/b]
Well, they (we) don't most of the time. Maybe that's for the best, because we might find the most active, politically motivated members get their way at the detriment of others? Maybe things should be changed so we do have more of a say? Who knows? It is what it is and we have to accept that those currently in charge are working and investing in the best interests of the members. Time will tell.

Why should the minority have their way, if TS needs support get TS shooters to join the NRA. As quoted above money talks so how much influence do you think the generally poorly supported, when compared to other events, TS events are going to get. There is too much pandering to minorities in this country. The best interests of the members would be to invest in improved rifle shooting facilities as they are the majority, the only way to change that is for more shotgunners to join the NRA; but they are currently sat on the fence aren't they.
John MH wrote: It’s actually 49 individual members who have selected TS as their primary discipline, the figure was supplied by the NRA Membership Department. Why don’t TS shooters join the NRA in advance of any developments or take overs, they are all sitting on the fence waiting to see. There are far more NRA members who shoot other disciplines and enter NRA events than specifically TS. I’m sure they would prefer to see the investment they have made in supporting the NRA being put into maintaining and upgrading rifle shooting facilities rather than a very niche PSG facility. Of course if there were actually more TS shooters in the NRA they would rightly expect that their needs were addressed in proportion to their contribution.
This is the same membership department who hasn't updated changes submitted by their members for several weeks. I've tried to change my primary to TS twice since Christmas, but the change hasn't been updated, so it's bad data. As I've said before, I'm sure a lot of members just list the disciplines they shoot in random order because they don't know or don't care what their "primary discipline" is. So you can't say from that number how many TS shooters are members, but it's certainly more than 49. Having said that, you are correct that TS is in the minority, but that it not a reason not to invest in it. It is a growing discipline and that means it should be supported.

It isn't going to be much more than 49 is it? It's is a growing discipline and should be supported, and when it’s grown sufficiently, and the NRA are seeing the benefits from match profits, then they should consider in investing in improved facilities and not before.
John MH wrote: IPSC has nothing to do with CSR, CSR shooters use the same facilities as Target Rifle/Match Rifle/F Class/Historic etc, the clue is in the word 'Rifle'.
You are distinguishing between IPSC facilities and rifle facilities, I'm not. They are all 'shooting' facilities and the NRA should be supporting, encouraging and investing in all of them. Their motto is "Promoting Target Shooting Throughout the United Kingdom" after all.


Yes I am, IPSC is all tosh and unnecessary for "Promoting Target Shooting Throughout the United Kingdom"


Now I know a lot of you don't believe they have that agenda and they certainly didn't in the past, but they are changing so we need to see what this proposal will bring and that's going to mean waiting until we see details of the proposal.


Well that’s true, but where did the '6 Dedicated Practical Bays' come from, where are they going to be built? Butt Zero?


As for comments such as "I'm not travelling 10 hours to Bisley to shoot a L2 match" - again, you don't know what the IPSC proposal contains and how the NRA intend to run it, so why not carry on as you have been with the UKPSA and see what the bid brings? It might all stay the same if the IPSC don't accept the bid.

I didn’t say that, I wouldn’t travel anywhere to shoot a L2 Match, whatever that is, as I don’t have a ‘Competition Licence’ whatever that is.
IsleShoot
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Re: NRA continue IPSC bid

#22 Post by IsleShoot »

I got my info on the 6 range bays from the UKPSA bulletin #4 2014, see excerp below.

"Mr Mercer confirmed that he intends to continue with the bid. The NRA has aspirational plans to build (up to) a 6 bay range complex at Bisley to run practical shotgun and other dynamic shooting disciplines. Apparently they are only at the survey point for the range complex. They will eventually roll out IPSC to other areas but will probably depend on their affiliated clubs for this. You will have to join the NRA to compete in IPSC matches held there which are L2 or above. He did not discuss any proposals for other practical shooting disciplines, such as Action Air, PR, Mini Rifle or the UKPSA’s LBF events, although we did raise this with him. We specifically asked if he intended to support IPSC Handgun, he stated that the NRA have an overseas fund for matches abroad but did not confirm that he would support handgun."
FredB
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Re: NRA continue IPSC bid

#23 Post by FredB »

A wise man once said that you could rate the performance of a democracy by the way that it looks after its minority groups. Being participants in a minority sport, neglected and subject to predjudice by the majority, all shooters should be only too well aware of this.
Fred
John MH

Re: NRA continue IPSC bid

#24 Post by John MH »

FredB wrote:A wise man once said that you could rate the performance of a democracy by the way that it looks after its minority groups. Being participants in a minority sport, neglected and subject to predjudice by the majority, all shooters should be only too well aware of this.
Fred
True, but we are talking about a minority within a minority. The point here is that if you wish or deserve the support of an organisation then, as long as that organisation is open for all to join and does not discriminate, then you should show your support by joining them in fighting to improve your lot.

Too much in this society is about getting something for nothing, its like being on benefits all your life.
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Primer
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Re: NRA continue IPSC bid

#25 Post by Primer »

The trouble is if the NRA want to attract us PSGers to become members then they need to provide some facilities at Bisley for us to use as currently if they hold matches there the stages are set up in the morning and cleared away at the end of the day so they don't have much time to set any courses of fire up that are that interesting compared to clubs with dedicated psg bays, take for example Shield, Steve spends at least a week building the courses of fire for the comps and 2 weeks for the big summer comp with 12 stages. So spend some money on providing an area for us minorities and we will join up and everyone gains.
When people ask stupid questions, I feel obligated to give sarcastic answers
John MH

Re: NRA continue IPSC bid

#26 Post by John MH »

Chicken and egg problem.

There are plenty of places all over the UK to shoot PSG, why should the NRA bother?

"If you build it they will come"

Will those from the far North or West come when the have local facilities?
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Re: NRA continue IPSC bid

#27 Post by techguy »

I'm joining the NRA, regardless as I shoot other disciplines now. But I'd be very happy if there were more PSG facilities at Bisley.
John MH

Re: NRA continue IPSC bid

#28 Post by John MH »

Good on you.
Demonic69
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Re: NRA continue IPSC bid

#29 Post by Demonic69 »

John MH wrote:Will those from the far North or West come when the have local facilities?
Some would if the competitions were of a high enough standard, though I still think NRA is a bit a misnomer.
Maybe LTRBC - London Target Rifle Boys Club :-)
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Re: NRA continue IPSC bid

#30 Post by Dangermouse »

The target shotgun events ran during the various gallery rifle events are always well attended as are the other shotgun events. I am confident that there are enough people who attend Bisley to warrant developing a range or bays.

DM
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