CWGC Grave.

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Blu
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Re: CWGC Grave.

#91 Post by Blu »

Jenks
I think I'll let it go. Hell in a couple of weeks i will have probably forgotten about it anyway. :roll: ;)
Well old son if your memory is anything like mine...............ummmm sorry what was it we were discussing here? sign85


Blu :twisted:
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Chuck
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Re: CWGC Grave.

#92 Post by Chuck »

The Party was a huge success only one child was actually physically ill and no permanent damage was done.
:lol: :lol: :lol: So were you expecting more casualties then jenks.

Yes grey matter degeneration is a nasty thing ....can remember stuff from 40 years ago but 40 seconds....nahh
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Jenks
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Re: CWGC Grave.

#93 Post by Jenks »

Jenks wrote:Now that my work on the two graves is all but complete, My mind has turned back to my great uncle William Sanders Killed in action with the 1/4th Leicestershire Regt. At the Battle of Loos, his battalion was part of the 138th brigade of the 46th North Midland Division. On the day he died 13th October 1915 They were charged with attacking the Hohenzollern Redoubt at Auchy les Mines. As his body was believed never to have been found, he is commemorated on a wall at 'Dud Corner Cemetery' Lens. Well recently I came across a document that proves that he was found and was buried on the battlefield (presumably temporarily)

Image

This is where it gets a bit complicated (for me that is) On the document it is stated

Reported buried by OC 1st Kings L'pool regt. and goes on to give the coordinates of the site of the burial as:

1000 yards S of 'Fosse de Bethune No 8' & 400 yards S of 'Big Willie'

Here is a map showing the two positions mentioned in 1915.

Image

Assuming the S in the coordinates to mean south and using the scale indicated on the map it doesn't add up.

It is also further complicated by the fact that William’s surname on the casualty record is misspelt as SAUNDERS not SANDERS this mistake is the name on his two WW1 medals and on the wall of the cemetery. However his Transvaal medal has his correct Name and in all cases his regimental number is correct. As is his name on his Death Penny.

Now that my work on the two graves is all but complete, My mind has turned back to my great uncle William Sanders Killed in action with the 1/4th Leicestershire Regt. At the Battle of Loos his battalion was part of the 138th brigade of the 46th North Midland Division. On the day he died 13th October 1915 They were charged with attacking the Hohenzollern Redoubt at Auchy les Mines. As hi body was never found, he is commemorated on a wall at 'Dud Corner Cemetery' Lens. Well recently I came across a document that proves that he was found and buried on the battle field (presumably temporarily)


This is where it gets a bit complicated (for me that is) On the document it is stated

Reported buried by OC 1st Kings L'pool regt. and goes on to give the coordinates of the site of the burial as:

1000 yards S of 'Fosse de Bethune No 8' & 400 yards S of 'Big Willie'

Here is a map showing the two positions mentioned in 1915.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hohen ... 15_map.jpg

Assuming the S in the coordinates to mean south and using the scale indicated on the map it doesn't add up.

It is also further coplicated by the fact that William’s surname on the casualty record is misspelt as SAUNDERS not SANDERS this mistake is the name on his two WW1 medals and on the wall of the cemetery. However his Transval medal has his correct Name and in all cases his regimental number is correct. As is his name on his Death Penny.

Image

My dilemma now is what do I do next? Should I just forget it, I am the only one in the family who knows or cares anything about him. If I do try and find out more how do I proceed? Has anyone had experience in this area. Suggestion and advice greatly appreciated.

Jenks
I have decided that I need help with the actual layout of the battlefield in so far as how the maps of 1915 relate to the ground today. This morning I contacted Jon Nichols of 'Arras Battlefield Tours'

http://www.ww1.co.uk/

His response was encouraging, so later in the year we will take a tour of the Hohenzollern redoubt area with him. I can't tell you how pleased I am.

Hello Jenks,
Thanks for getting in touch with me..
Strange that I should get your message this morning..
I am just on my way this minute, to the Loos Battlefield, just about to walk out of the door, taking an elderly lady over there whose father was killed with the Black Watch in the Hohenzollern Redoubt..
Will take her to Quarry Cemetery first and the grave of Fergus Bowes Lyn.. Black Watch. (Queen Mother's brother)
Tomorrow we go to the Arras commemorations..
I would be delighted to help you.
Let me know what time of year you wish to go. I have all the trench maps for the redoubt area, plus the latest sat nav co-ordination. We should be able to locate his place..
Have to dash..
Warmest regards

Jenks
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Jenks
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Re: CWGC Grave.

#94 Post by Jenks »

Just back from a visit to Etaples Military Cemetery. Once again another very moving experience.

I found the first sight from Lutyen’s memorial of close on 11,000 graves almost too much, the immense individual, and personal tragedy represented by those simple Portland stones must affect all who see them.

A youtube video (I don’t much care for the second piece of music) but I think it is a good video
.


Amongst the headstones I spotted this one marking the grave of Major Douglas Reynolds VC.

Image



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Reynolds



Jenks
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Re: CWGC Grave.

#95 Post by Jenks »

Looking through the photo's of my recent trip I came across this one I thought people might find interesting:

Image

note his age.


Jenks
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Polchraine
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Re: CWGC Grave.

#96 Post by Polchraine »

Jenks wrote:Looking through the photo's of my recent trip I came across this one I thought people might find interesting:

Image

note his age.


Jenks

I wonder why he used an alias? Was his surname Orman considered too Germanic, I wonder?


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Re: CWGC Grave.

#97 Post by Christel »

Jewish...

Guess that is why he served under a different name.
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Re: CWGC Grave.

#98 Post by Polchraine »

christel wrote:Jewish...

Guess that is why he served under a different name.

Being Jewish was not really an issue in the Great War. In fact it is believed, by some schools, that Hitler blamed the Jews for Germany loosing and that was partly the reason for his hatred.

A quick search came up with this:

... has been estimated, the Jewish population during this period was approximately 350,000. Of that number, 50-60,000 British Jews served in the War with about 3,000 Jewish soldiers who fell in battle.
Last edited by Polchraine on Mon May 26, 2014 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.


"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to discern whether or not they are genuine."
- Abraham Lincoln

Why did kamikaze pilots wear helmets?

God loves stupid people, that is why he made so many of them.
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Jenks
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Re: CWGC Grave.

#99 Post by Jenks »

Does anyone know why Jews put stones on top of the headstone?

Jenks
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Polchraine
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Re: CWGC Grave.

#100 Post by Polchraine »

Jenks wrote:Does anyone know why Jews put stones on top of the headstone?

Jenks

It may go back to ancient rites: possibly to weigh down the soul to keep it in this world or to ensure priests did not get too close as they would become impure. And from that it has become "tradition". I know that they often choose them carefully: from a place the deceased enjoyed, or from Israel, &c.


"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to discern whether or not they are genuine."
- Abraham Lincoln

Why did kamikaze pilots wear helmets?

God loves stupid people, that is why he made so many of them.
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