Air Rifle and Guns Confiscated

[Christel]

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/le ... ated-80842

For the record, I completely agree with the answers in the article...it is the actual situations that are just plain silly.

We have an air rifle being "confiscated" due to it being illegal, we have guns being seized because there is a dispute with the neighbour and all the two owners can do is moan.

Frankly mate, your airgun is not legal and frankly mate your guns have to go somewhere else while you are screaming at your neighbour.

Fair enough, the airgun might be legal if tested elsewhere, then get that done, do not highlight the RFD for pointing out that you are using something that may not be legal.

As far as I know, in the situation the police do not have to issue any paperwork, they are there to take the guns away to avoid any blood shedding.

[Pippin89]

Situation 1: It seems the RFD was incorrect to confiscate and simply a warning that the air rifle may be over the legal limit and an offer to adjust would be the better solution?? I guess if this was ignored, they may have grounds to notify police of a potentially illegally held firearm? Although, assuming dieseling is allowed for in the law, and the minor exceeding of the limit, that might be a step too far...

Situation 2: The way I understood what my FEO explained to me, taking the guns would be normal in this situation. If not because of concerns of the holder, then due to concerns about what the neighbour might do in retaliation to the argument. As the neighbour was arrested, they obviously had a violent reaction and/or are known to the police so an additional security risk has been identified. If this is the case then the guns should be returned after a risk assessment and any additional security measures being complied with. If the police did take the guns due to concerns about the holder, and these proved to be genuine concerns, then as you said, don't go having screaming matches with your bloody neighbour!

Good advice in the article though I think.

[Mattnall]

For the first case, is it legal for an RFD to hand over something that they suspect to be an illegal firearm to someone without the authority to possess the firearm in it's current [illegal?] state, even to the owner.

What if it was a folding shotgun (perhaps one of those .410 poacher jobbies) that was handed in for a small bit of work and has a barrel just under the legal limit? Could that be given back?

[Blackstuff]

There's a lot of info not confirmed in Case 2 but I read it as the gun owner calling the police because of a 'noise' complaint (more likely to be loud music no??), the police attend, neighbour kicks off and gets arrested and simply because of that the gun owners shooters are confiscated. If those were the circumstances I'd be pretty miffed too!

Of course, it may have been due to a verbal altercation that the police were called. It may be that when the police were in attendance the gun owner came out and started winding up the neighbour in order to get them arrested. The possibilities are endless.

On the assumption that most police officers are reasonable most of the time (based strictly on my own experience), I suppose there must have been more to what was printed.

I certainly don't think its right for someone to have their guns confiscated simply because they don't get on with their neighbours and may have at one point 'had words'. If that were the case surely it would make gun owners not want to call the police when they should be being called, the situation escalating and the likelihood of something more serious happening increasing?

[Dark Skies]

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/le ... ated-80842

For the record, I completely agree with the answers in the article...it is the actual situations that are just plain silly.

We have an air rifle being "confiscated" due to it being illegal, we have guns being seized because there is a dispute with the neighbour and all the two owners can do is moan.

Frankly mate, your airgun is not legal and frankly mate your guns have to go somewhere else while you are screaming at your neighbour.

Fair enough, the airgun might be legal if tested elsewhere, then get that done, do not highlight the RFD for pointing out that you are using something that may not be legal.

As far as I know, in the situation the police do not have to issue any paperwork, they are there to take the guns away to avoid any blood shedding.

Except, frankly, we only have the RFD's say so that the air rifle is illegal. It allegedly is .4ft lbs over the limit which could easily be down to the equipment being incorrectly set up / out of calibration or a freak combination of a particular pellet, and dieseling. If we were talking 14ft lbs then maybe it'd be an issue for concern. Either way the RFD doesn't have authority to confiscate his property and if he is sued under tort deserves it and the loss of business that may ensue for his being a busybody. By all means suggest he has it tested elsewhere and brought within the limit if appropriate. And that's all.

And, frankly, you don't know enough about the scenario with the neighbour to accuse the shotgun owner of "screaming at your neighbour". The fact the neighbour was arrested suggests the shotgun owner isn't the problem here.
On the face of it it seems likely the police flagged the SGC and removed them as a precaution to stop the situation escalating later down the line. Maybe. But if they did confiscate his property then he RIGHTLY should get receipts for it.

Put yourself in his shoes for a moment. How would you feel about your neighbour kicking off, say, over your asking him to be a bit more considerate (insert your own complaint here) and consequently having all your firearms and ammunition removed from your business and home without any documentation to show for it?
I'd be bloody outraged.

I had a nut job for a neighbour once. Didn't like the noise of my (standard) Harley. He stomped round one day (I was out). My wife answered the door and he pushed his way into my home and marched about looking for me. He tried to repeat the exercise upon my return. Somehow I remained calm enough to call the police (in my youth I'd have kicked the s*** out of him but I'm a more mellow person these days) and they took him off my property.
Would you feel it fair that all my firearms be removed without any documentation to reference it simply because I was unlucky enough to have an arsehole move in next door?

If it became common practice FAC holders would be placed in the position of being unable to call the police lest they became even more of a victim than before they'd picked up the phone.

[Ovenpaa]

A few examples of how I have dealt with this:

A .410 folder arrived and was a tad under 24". I advised the customer and he left it with us for disposal.

A customer arrived one day with a 12 bore S/A that was failing to feed. As I started to strip it at the counter for a quick look a plastic spacer came out of the end of the tube. I test with some dummy cartridges and the magazine took 4 with ease. He was an S2 holder and it was obviously S1. As he had only just purchased it we agreed he would head straight back to the shop and let them deal with it. (As an aside, they swapped it for another S/A that also turned out to be S1 and I am not sure what he ended up with in the end.)

Another one that springs to mind is a local chap took an air rifle to a shop for a service, they serviced it and told him it was over 12 ft/lbs so could not be returned. He applied for a variation for an S1 air rifle, got it back and headed over to me so I could check it over. The 10 test shots I fired over the chrono averaged out at 11.1 ft/lbs. I wound it up to 18 ft/lbs which is what he was after and felt I just could not charge him.

I often get asked to service air rifles and wind them up, I always ask if they have lawful authority to possess such a gun and am usually greeted with a blank stare. That would be a no then.

Every single air gun that comes in is chronoed with 10 shots and the results printed out including date, customer, serial, pellets used and MVs and energy. I include ES, SD and averages for reference.

Finally, I did speak to my FEO about this a long while ago and he told me we are not police officers and as such do not have the authority to withhold a firearm. Of course we can make a note of the person and the gun and let him know instead :)

[RDC]

If it became common practice FAC holders would be placed in the position of being unable to call the police lest they became even more of a victim than before they'd picked up the phone.

I know of several FAC holders who have simply had miserable lives because of bad neighbours due to the fear of having their firearms taken it they were to complain to the neighbour or the authorities. Those very same neighbours can also make it incredibly hard to tell up and move elsewhere.

[Mattnall]

A customer arrived one day with a 12 bore S/A that was failing to feed. As I started to strip it at the counter for a quick look a plastic spacer came out of the end of the tube. I test with some dummy cartridges and the magazine took 4 with ease. He was an S2 holder and it was obviously S1. As he had only just purchased it we agreed he would head straight back to the shop and let them deal with it. (As an aside, they swapped it for another S/A that also turned out to be S1 and I am not sure what he ended up with in the end.)

Would it be different if it had been left with you and entered in the register and not just the guy coming in and straight back out, it never going in your register?
It would be interesting to know what would happen if that owner didn't take it straight back, was stopped by the police doing something silly (or rough shooting - silly enough with an illegal shotgun) and the gun seized before it had been swapped for a S2 version, and he said the guy in the shop knows it's a S1 and still gave it back to me.

[Sim G]

I know of several FAC holders who have simply had miserable lives because of bad neighbours due to the fear of having their firearms taken it they were to complain to the neighbour or the authorities. Those very same neighbours can also make it incredibly hard to tell up and move elsewhere.

There is nothing like the misery that bad neighbours bring!! And stuff really can spill over in an instant!