Offensive Weapons Bill

[Mattnall]

This shows a total lack of understanding of much of the S11(4) reasons for being.

The fairgrounds use it, yes.
However the main users are (or used to be) small bore clubs. The NSRA used to be called the Society of Miniature Rifle Clubs. Clubs can still operate on an S11(4) basis and then they don't need to have membership and can allow 'guests' all the time. The NSRA still operates under this rule and they don't have an FAC.
There are many clubs and societies still using the s11(4) rules and businesses as well, where individuals are introduced to rifle shooting in a way that hopefully dispells any myths and helps them be sympathetic to the sport even if they don't take it up. Many are put off by the whole club route and a "what if I don't like it?" attitude.

It is not a 'backdoor' to owning firearms. Just try it if you think it is so easy. You can always sell any s11 firearms you get to yourself as an FAC holder or to a dealer if you don't want them, but I bet you'll find it rather hard to get listened to in the shop, let alone actually purchase a rifle.

Just because you don't think it is an option that should be allowed doesn't mean all users should be "thrown under a bus", as the popular expression goes.

[JSC]

This could prevent future crimes but it also will make it harder for people who want to try shooting for the first time to do so. That's not progress.

[Furiouspilgrim]

why should some unchecked fairground person bellowed to buy .22 rifle & ammo when no one else can with out a licence. Clubs can't allow any one off the street to have a go with firearms so why should any one else.
I would also like to add that when ever a fair or other such traveling business is in our town thefts from garages, sheds & cars goes up.
So they are not all upstanding law abiding businessmen.

Do you want a bigger brush to tar people with your misinformation? Lots of reputable places operating under S11.

[Mattnall]

Clubs can't allow any one off the street to have a go with firearms so why should any one else.

Yes they can. Smallbore clubs can do just this, they are the main reason for the Miniature Rifle exemption.
All they have to do is operate one night a week or less as a miniature rifle club and anyone can pay and play (S21 candidates excepted).

[toffe wrapper]

Full bore clubs can't let people in off street, plus other restrictions on new members. Its all in guidance for HO approved clubs.

22 clubs treated different, yet again one rule for us another rule for you.

Not sure what miss information I listed please clarify what was miss information. other than 22 clubs can allow any one to play with a firearm. Where full bore clubs can't

The ability for fairground worker to buy firearm or ammunition with out licence.
The crime rate increasing when fairs are in town.
Back door to firearms with out a licence.

All fact

[MistAgain]

S11 needs to go it is a exploitable back door to obtaining firearms with out a licence, it also weakens the tracking of said firearms. (They should be tracked cradle to grave)

Are you suggesting some sort of Firearms Passport ?

[Pete]

I'm with toffee on that one, and apart from this loophole effectively giving any nutjob access to a firearm, no-one has mentioned insurance.................who's liable if your fairground/shooting gallery marksmanship results in a ricochet that hits a bystander?

Re-Pete

[toffe wrapper]

From NSRA
1. You do not have to conform to Home Office criteria
2. You do not have to accept the restrictions placed on any Firearms Certificate and therefore you would not have to wait for a variation before buying a new gun
3. Any sale of ammunition or firearms has to be face to face except where there is no need to enter the transaction into a FAC (1997 Firearms Amendment Act).

From Showman's Guild.
As long as your convictions are spent you can join.

So Buy a lorry call it a mini range Join Showman's guild. get their exemption certificate, bit of PL insurance. Then unlimited .22 rifle & ammo shopping even mail order (as no need for F2F. No need to comply with HO security guidance.

[Thorney]

I think you need to drill down into the details of 11(4).

You need insurance, this is not easy, or cheap.

You need access to firearms via an rfd, also no overly easy, the rfd still needs to record the sale and so does the range owner. The gun doesnt just disappear it's still recorded.

The law is not as laissez faire as it looks.

[MistAgain]

From Showman's Guild.
As long as your convictions are spent you can join.

So Buy a lorry call it a mini range Join Showman's guild. get their exemption certificate, bit of PL insurance. Then unlimited .22 rifle & ammo shopping even mail order (as no need for F2F. No need to comply with HO security guidance.

In all the years I have visited both static and mobile fairs I have only ever seen one range that used 22lr/22 short .

Every other range has used 22BB's along with 22 gallery rifles . Until his death Tom Collins was the only supplier of this ammunition and the gallery rifles .
He was also as far as I remember the only person who would service them for the ranges. I was told who took over from him , but I cannot remember .

The Showmans Guild only allows what the call 22 shot to be used on ranges .

And joining the showmans guild is not as easy as you think .