Stolen 50 cal.......

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snayperskaya
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Re: Stolen 50 cal.......

#21 Post by snayperskaya »

1066 wrote:Reply from my MP this morning:

Thank you for contacting me about the Offensive Weapons Bill.

I can assure you that I am not opposed to the possession of firearms generally, and I certainly recognise that the overwhelming majority of firearms are used responsibly. However I do appreciate that it is important to ensure more work is done to break the cycle of violence that devastates the lives of individuals, families and communities. I know the Government shares this position and is taking action to ensure the sale and possession of dangerous weapons is prevented and as part of this has introduced the ‘Serious Violence Strategy’ to help tackle the recent increases in serious violence.

I have consulted with colleagues around this issue and understand that the Serious Violence Strategy supports a multi-strand approach including robust law enforcement, early intervention and prevention. A key element of the strategy is the Offensive Weapons Bill. The Bill contains a range of measures to update and strengthen the law on the sale of corrosive substances, ban the delivery of knives and corrosives bought online to residential addresses and ban the possession of weapons including zombie knives, knuckle dusters and death stars both in public and private. The Bill will also make it harder for young people to buy knives and acid online.

I can see that you have highlighted key areas of concern that the shooting community have and that one of them references ‘ No legally owned rifle of the types to be prohibited has ever been used in criminal activity’ however I understand from colleagues that on occasion these weapons have fallen into the wrong hands and that a .50 calibre rifle was stolen from the home of a licensed holder of firearms last year and in another case, a licensed owner of weapons including a .50 calibre rifle was involved in the firearms and ammunition supply chain of an organised crime gang in the West Midlands. As I previously mentioned, I do believe that the vast majority of firearms owners are responsible owners, but it is the case that the Government has a duty to safeguard the public and to take the steps that they feel are necessary in order to do this.

You may be aware that the Public Bill Committee is accepting written evidence regarding the Offensive Weapons Bill and that you can present your views to this committee by the 13th September 2018. I would therefore encourage you to submit your views via the following weblink so that your views can be taken into consideration : https://www.parliament.uk/business/news ... pons-bill/ .

Thank you again for contacting me and for sharing your thoughts with me.

(As an aside, please could ask you to kindly email me back with your address so that my office can record our correspondence. Thank you for this. )

Kind regards,

Huw

Huw Merriman

I had a letter back from my MP this morning which is pretty much the same as this, most of it word for word, although she goes on to say how she understands that "these guns (.50 calibre) are more powerful than standard British Army rifles, have a range of several miles and can, with certain ammunition, breach the body armour worn to protect soldiers in combat".There was also a bit about banning "death stars"........where can I get my orbiting battle station before the ban kicks in???, I'll take extra TIE fighters with it as well! lol

Same line about one being stolen from the home of a licensed owner of firearms and the bit about a licensed owner of a .50 calibre rifle supplying firearms and ammunition to an organised crime gang in the West Midlands.

It would seem there must be a generic letter on the House of Commons intranet that MP's can copy and paste from in order to create response letters.
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Re: Stolen 50 cal.......

#22 Post by JSC »

snayperskaya wrote:
It would seem there must be a generic letter on the House of Commons intranet that MP's can copy and paste from in order to create response letters.
Not just the MPs, but the Ministers and Home Office etc. as well.

The letters I sent to my MP during the consultation had specific questions in them not related to the general theme of the consultation. Both my MP's and Nick Hurd's reply letters completely ignored those questions but answered questions I didn't even put to them.

It's insulting the way they behave and I have zero respect for them but the only way we're going to change it is with perseverance and determination. Giving up or just accepting it's a 'done deal' is playing right into their hands.
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Re: Stolen 50 cal.......

#23 Post by Christel »

JSC wrote: Giving up or just accepting it's a 'done deal' is playing right into their hands.
The officials are of the opinion that the shooting community can shout as much as we like, it won't change matters because the decision has been taken.

The only way to get the decision turned around it to establish a working group that will challenge everything to do with the ban and the current firearms law.
That requires a lot of manpower, expert law knowledge and funds.

8-)
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Re: Stolen 50 cal.......

#24 Post by Lancs Lad »

christel wrote:
JSC wrote: Giving up or just accepting it's a 'done deal' is playing right into their hands.
The officials are of the opinion that the shooting community can shout as much as we like, it won't change matters because the decision has been taken.

The only way to get the decision turned around it to establish a working group that will challenge everything to do with the ban and the current firearms law.
That requires a lot of manpower, expert law knowledge and funds.

8-)
Christel;

I would be very happy to contribute / donate to such a group and I don't think that I would be alone on that particular issue.

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Re: Stolen 50 cal.......

#25 Post by IainWR »

I do believe that if enough of us sell the correct concepts to our MPs this can be overturned. Those who use the now well-revealed parrot line can be challenged for exactly that - we know they are parroting officialdom, they know it, if they are called out on it where do they go next?

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Re: Stolen 50 cal.......

#26 Post by GeeRam »

christel wrote:
JSC wrote: Giving up or just accepting it's a 'done deal' is playing right into their hands.
The officials are of the opinion that the shooting community can shout as much as we like, it won't change matters because the decision has been taken.

The only way to get the decision turned around it to establish a working group that will challenge everything to do with the ban and the current firearms law.
That requires a lot of manpower, expert law knowledge and funds.
And a united cohesive shooting community....... 8-)

And that's why we're ultimately doomed.
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Re: Stolen 50 cal.......

#27 Post by Christel »

GeeRam wrote:
christel wrote:
JSC wrote: Giving up or just accepting it's a 'done deal' is playing right into their hands.
The officials are of the opinion that the shooting community can shout as much as we like, it won't change matters because the decision has been taken.

The only way to get the decision turned around it to establish a working group that will challenge everything to do with the ban and the current firearms law.
That requires a lot of manpower, expert law knowledge and funds.
And a united cohesive shooting community....... 8-)

And that's why we're ultimately doomed.
Agree 5mith
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Re: Stolen 50 cal.......

#28 Post by The Event »

This letter that MPs are sending is why we can't just rely on the tactic of saying we are law abiding. It gives no comeback to the claims of guns being stolen from their law abiding owners and misused by others.
The correct response to the statement about a .50 being stolen from a licensed holder is "So what? A stolen .50 is no more dangerous than a stolen .408 or .416". Or "So what if the guy who supplied criminals gangs owned a .50, he supplied them with other firearms that are more appealing to criminals."
The FCSA didn't get so many MPs on side just by saying their owners were law abiding it was by rubbishing the claims that the Home Office made about the capabilities of the .50
We have to do the same with MARS & lever release rifles and show that they are no more dangerous than other firearms. By not saying this out of a fear of those other firearms being banned means we effectively agree with them that they are extra dangerous.

The MPs who will be looking at the Bill on the Public Bill Committee are
Victoria Atkins MP (Con, Louth) Parliamentary Under Secretary of State at the Home Office for Crime, Safeguarding and Vulnerability
Paul Maynard MP (Con, Blackpool North) Government Whip
Rachael Maclean MP (Con, Redditch) Home Office PPS.
James Morris MP (Con, Halesowen & Rowley Regis)
Paul Scully MP (Con, Sutton & Cheam)
Mary Robinson MP (Con, Cheadle)
Nigel Huddleston MP (Con, mid Worcestershire)
Kevin Foster MP (Con, Torbay)
Tom Pursglove MP (Con, Corby) PPS to Robert Goodwill at the Home Office.

Anyone in any of their constituencies needs to make sure they are properly informed about what they are being asked to ban.
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Re: Stolen 50 cal.......

#29 Post by Lever357 »

breacher wrote:
Lever357 wrote:I had heard a car was stolen with a .50 cal inside and when the owner was asked to describe the weapon, the police were taken aback by the capabilities of the rifle!

I have also heard from someone in the police that when they do a sweep of an area prior to a visit by an important person, they check within a 600 yard radius of where said person will be. They have recently realised a .50 cal can shoot for two miles and there is no way they could secure an area of that magnatude.
My knowledge is out of date but it used to be 300 yards !

Besides - in UK cities its rare to get a clear line of sight at a range where a .50 would be needed. In open grid pattern modern cities you might but not in our cities with their small twisted streets.

Add to that they simply dont have the resources. Every 100 yards added to the sterile radius means hundreds of possible threats and thousands of police hours required to deal with clearing them.

I reckon a quality drone with a hand grenade or even an IED attached would be a more credible threat than a guy with a .50 unless they have thousands of rounds in training etc
It was a serving officer who told me it is 600 yards. And I think part of the police fear is if a .50 cal fell in to the wrong hands, they have nothing to counter it.
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Re: Stolen 50 cal.......

#30 Post by safetyfirst »

Lever357 wrote:
breacher wrote:
Lever357 wrote:I had heard a car was stolen with a .50 cal inside and when the owner was asked to describe the weapon, the police were taken aback by the capabilities of the rifle!

I have also heard from someone in the police that when they do a sweep of an area prior to a visit by an important person, they check within a 600 yard radius of where said person will be. They have recently realised a .50 cal can shoot for two miles and there is no way they could secure an area of that magnatude.
My knowledge is out of date but it used to be 300 yards !

Besides - in UK cities its rare to get a clear line of sight at a range where a .50 would be needed. In open grid pattern modern cities you might but not in our cities with their small twisted streets.

Add to that they simply dont have the resources. Every 100 yards added to the sterile radius means hundreds of possible threats and thousands of police hours required to deal with clearing them.

I reckon a quality drone with a hand grenade or even an IED attached would be a more credible threat than a guy with a .50 unless they have thousands of rounds in training etc
It was a serving officer who told me it is 600 yards. And I think part of the police fear is if a .50 cal fell in to the wrong hands, they have nothing to counter it.
counter it?!?! A .22 could counter it if you sneak round the back!!

What an odd way of thinking they would have if this was their position.
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