Custom paint jobs - is there a line?

[TattooedGun]

Paying devils advocate if you had a gun painted to look like a toy over here could an overzealous copper (+CPS) try to pin a Section 5 offence on you under;

Subject to section 5A of this Act, a person commits an offence if, without the authority of the Secretary of State [F8or the Scottish Ministers (by virtue of provision made under section 63 of the Scotland Act 1998], he has in his possession, or purchases or acquires, or sells or transfers—

(a)any firearm which is disguised as another object;

Doesn't that apply to things like briefcase guns and walking stick type firearms?.If you had a rifle painted like at Nerf gun at an approved range how many overzealous coppers would see it?.A guy at my club has a rifle painted with the "Stars and Stripes".......does that mean it's disguised as a flag???!!!.

Not exactly in the spirit of the law is it, one painted with aflag and the other to immitate a well known TOY gun.

I suppose it would come down to whether or not to the uninitiated could it be considered an imitation.

Could a firearm painted with a flag be confused for a flag. No, not by any sane person.

Could a firearm painted like a nerf gun be confused for a nerf gun?





You or I can see the difference instantly. Could a jury? Or a policeman at 20 yards?

[Blackstuff]

Doesn't that apply to things like briefcase guns and walking stick type firearms?.If you had a rifle painted like at Nerf gun at an approved range how many overzealous coppers would see it?.A guy at my club has a rifle painted with the "Stars and Stripes".......does that mean it's disguised as a flag???!!!.

As above. The law was clearly created with walking stick, brief case and pen guns (or more recently mobile phone guns) in mind however an overzealous member of the CPS might argue that a gun painted that way might allow it to be carried in public/taken somewhere you shouldn't have a gun/allow a criminal terrorist to bypass some level of security that something that obviously looks like a firearm would not.

[Chuck]

Not exactly in the spirit of the law is it, one painted with aflag and the other to immitate a well known TOY gun.

Spirit of the law! Oh NO, it's either law or not..they tried this "spirit of the law crud" to do away with LBR's di dthey not.

As long as we pander to "spirit of the law" we'll get screwed. The law is the law, it has no "spirit".....exept "evil" when used against us to destroy the sport.

As for resmbling other things I think that applies to guns that look like mobile phones, walking sticks atc., a NERF gun is still a GUN at the end of the day.

As for what perps do - well you could find all sorts of silly reasons using that train of thought....and all would point to your guns being confiscated by same overzealous plod.

Too much "but what if...." rather than, "yes good idea, why not" these days. Kids with NERFS being shot - that's not going to happen.

[RDC]

Ok, take NERF off of the side and how is it any different from some of these practical race pistols in bright and fanciful colours with all sorts of sci-if optic mounts and stuff bolted to it, or a bright coloured shotgun, or a 10/22 in a bright blue 'evolution' stock, or even a Dolphin F-class rifle in bright colours?

And what is all this talk or pointing at a copper? It's someone on a range painting it up in bright colours, not pointing it at coppers. Yes, crims will do whatever they like, shall we stop real guns because they might point a real gun at someone, or ban airsoft guns because someone might point it at someone?

Some of you lot confuse me. Get worked up when someone says black guns make you a walting psychopath, then condemn people as trying to purposefully conceal a firearm so they can walk down a street with it if they paint it in colourful colours like that found on a toy gun.

[breacher]

Its the logic I dont get. What if any is the intent? If it IS to deceive then why?

Why disguise a real rifle as a toy (other than the obvious)?

Why not just buy a toy?

Maybe because they CAN and they want a bit of FUN, y'know that thing that's in short supply these days in the UK. by chnaging it they have a "style" and as there IS a body who get scared of all things black then this should be welcomed..If someone is going to do something illegal / silly then they'll do it anyway..

Did they not have kits that let you have an Aliens style "pulse rifle" a short time ago....Maybe we should stop taking life so seriously, god knows we have enough worries in the world without someone having a NERF gun that works ...As long as it's legal then really, should we care?

https://youtu.be/am76xV8Aubk


So yes, let's get FUN back into things.

OK, I see that, in the right environment.

But simply because you can do something does not make it right unless common sense is applied.

Here's a law enforcement angle.

Scenario A

Perp points a black rifle at armed cop. Armed cop reacts and drops perp. Job jobbed, happy days....it could have been an airsoft but its the risk you take with realistic looking firearms in the wrong environment.

The reaction to someone armed with a black rifle will never change I am afraid.


Scenario B

Perp points a nerf gun at armed cop. Armed cop hesitates. Gets dropped.

3 weeks later.....Kid points nerf gun at scenario Bs surviving mate. This time he does not hesitate and kills kid with Nerf gun.

Enquiry

Ban (probably more far reaching than making proper firearms look like toys).

Dead innocent (but misguided) kid.

SO. On the one hand we have a law here determining that unless you are in a specific group of individuals you should not (I say should not) own an airsoft gun that does not have large patches of blue, orange etc on it.

But on the other hand we are advocating taking legit firearms an legally disguising them as something else...because its fun

I know this does not mean that crims wont try to make the real thing look like a toy, but ultimately it will mean that more innocent (if slightly stupid) people WILL get slotted, and there WILL be public outcry because one of my colleagues has reacted on our behalf as we pay him or her to do, and ultimately 2 peoples and their families lives are ruined for fun.

Genius

They could just quietly enjoy their sport without having to push the boundaries all the time because they can Chuck OK, you may say that people will only use them on a range....but again, crims dont abide by the rules, they are crims

Boundaries and identification of firearms needs (now more than ever) to be as clear as it can be. Crims will be crims, but we would hope that intelligence will help there (or otherwise).

I will ask my colleague on the Firearms Training team what he thinks of this latest and greatest idea.

There have been a lot of .22 x 4 barrel guns smuggled in from the Balkans to the UK. Perfect copies of mobile phones.

Not seen anybody shot yet for pulling out a phone.

[Chuck]

Ok, take NERF off of the side and how is it any different from some of these practical race pistols in bright and fanciful colours with all sorts of sci-if optic mounts and stuff bolted to it, or a bright coloured shotgun, or a 10/22 in a bright blue 'evolution' stock, or even a Dolphin F-class rifle in bright colours?

And what is all this talk or pointing at a copper? It's someone on a range painting it up in bright colours, not pointing it at coppers. Yes, crims will do whatever they like, shall we stop real guns because they might point a real gun at someone, or ban airsoft guns because someone might point it at someone?

Some of you lot confuse me. Get worked up when someone says black guns make you a walting psychopath, then condemn people as trying to purposefully conceal a firearm so they can walk down a street with it if they paint it in colourful colours like that found on a toy gun.

We are overloaded with the "what if" merchants in every walk of life these days......

Black guns are bad,
wood is bad
Coloured guns are bad...BAAAAAAAAAAD!

ALL GUNS MATTER!

[breacher]

Not exactly in the spirit of the law is it, one painted with aflag and the other to immitate a well known TOY gun.

Spirit of the law! Oh NO, it's either law or not..they tried this "spirit of the law crud" to do away with LBR's di dthey not.

As long as we pander to "spirit of the law" we'll get screwed. The law is the law, it has no "spirit".....exept "evil" when used against us to destroy the sport.

As for resmbling other things I think that applies to guns that look like mobile phones, walking sticks atc., a NERF gun is still a GUN at the end of the day.

As for what perps do - well you could find all sorts of silly reasons using that train of thought....and all would point to your guns being confiscated by same overzealous plod.

Too much "but what if...." rather than, "yes good idea, why not" these days. Kids with NERFS being shot - that's not going to happen.

The spirit thing actually helps sometimes. Otherwise, a pencil would be a pointed article with regard to Blades and Points legislation !

[snayperskaya]

To be honest I can't recall seeing kids in the streets with Nerf guns, my Mrs nephew has got loads of them and either plays with them in the garden or in the house.When I was a kid in the seventies I can remember me and my mates having some pretty realistic looking toy rifles, I had a MP-40 that was pretty much full size, albeit in plastic, that shot plastic bullets as fast as you could pull the trigger.We used to run around the streets playing "war" and don't recall anyone actually getting shot by the rozzers!.
Then again I think in the seventies etc kids could have proper fun, these days it seems they can't get dirty or eat worms in the garden without being doused with a gallon of antibacterial spray and attacked with half a pack of wet wipes by overprotective parents!!!.

[Countryman]

Nerf guns designs are awesome! It would be so much more fun if gun designers took note.

I painted up a couple for a star wars costume party at my local rugby club.




Sent from my boing using "An application"

[Maggot]

Ah yea, the old body language thing.

I suppose you dont remember the issues in NI with the old plastic SLR that Airfix produced.

On another tac, an old Sgt of mine was machine gunned by a kid with a thompson because they thought...ah...kid....no issues. And spookilly that particular gun was not made to look like something else.

Honestly and genuinely, I think we need to take a look at ourselves.

We like to shoot, we love our shooters, do we really need to go into some bloody fantasy world just to make ourselves look a bit different to everyone else or can we not make our name by excelling at what we do? Or better still just enjoy it without drawing (usually abject) attention to ourselves.

I can see the sense if you wanted to, in making your gun look more cuddly. I can see the sense in having them dipped etc if that is your thing, but the whole point of this thread was how far is too far?

Stop banging on about spirit of the law, rights, and god knows what else and use some common sense.

I bought my No4 because I wanted a No4 to shoot, as a No4.....wierd.

I got my AR because I wanted a rifle to compete in CSR with. I dont care what colour it is, I care about what it does. Go figure.

My Dolphin was only green because I like green...it could have been any colour, but even with some of the imagination we seem to have, it dont look like anything other than a bloody gun does it...unless you have been sniffing Hoppes again in which case best give it up

The minute you start making a legit, licensed firearm look like a toy, intentionally, then you are potentially treading into dangerous waters.

Hell, we have enough issues with the image of black rifles (even with other shooters) let alone "Concealing" their real identity under plastic or god knows what else.

Hey, you know what, crack on and enjoy kids