Variation

Pre 1945 action rifles. Muzzle loading.

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Mattnall
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Re: Variation

#11 Post by Mattnall »

Ovenpaa wrote:Some FEO's and licensing departments are against collecting as they say the firearms act makes no provision for it.
Many FEOs and departments are blissfully and/or wilfully ignorant of the law. According to the Guidance collecting is covered in the Act (albeit, not mentioned specifically) and it is quite comprehensively mentioned in said Guidance.

The problem with wanting a collection and saying it is for target shooting means that you have to use them all regularly and they might be quite old, rare or otherwise not wanting to be fired so often thereby risking damage or adverse wear and tear. You may have to evidence this use as well.
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Re: Variation

#12 Post by jimbo303 »

Personally - when I wanted to acquire an additional slot for a further .303 I told the FEO at renewal some years ago that I wished to acquire another one to shoot in a different class of SR - I had a No4 and wanted to obtain an SMLE, I was prepared for some questioning. So produced the info from the NRA and HBSA on the different classes relating to Historic, Classic, Veteran, Veteran Optic etc. He was totally unaware of the range of classes available in this discipline and actually thanked me for enlightening him.

I would suggest this approach as opposed to using the collecting route as this this is not open to any Force interpretation or directive - but relates specifically to accepted and accredited rifle classifications.

Just my thoughts but it was totally indisputable on his part or his superiors, and easy to demonstrate and prove the case for several rifles of the same action and calibre.

J
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Re: Variation

#13 Post by Mattnall »

jimbo303 wrote:
I would suggest this approach as opposed to using the collecting route as this this is not open to any Force interpretation or directive - but relates specifically to accepted and accredited rifle classifications.
That's all well and good but the OP wanted to start a collection.
Unless he really wants an extra shooter then that's fine, but if it is purely as a collector's item with occasional shooting then not only is it lying to obtain but having to shoot more times than is necessary something that is old and possibly rare might not be beneficial to the firearm. And then there is the burden of proving that you have regularly shot something you didn't intend to shoot much.
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Re: Variation

#14 Post by Cornish-Viking »

Don't over complicate it.

If you a target shooter then you have no fuss. Just make sure u put down enough ammo.

Ive had my first variation into full bore not so long ago and went for a .303 and 6.5 Apollo Creedmoor with 400 rounds of each. All went through fine and rifles are nicely tucked away in their beds.
- Tikka - 6.5 Creedmoor/MDT ACC
- Schmeisser LMR 223
- 1942 Lee Enfield No4 Mk1
- Bergara B14r Carbon
- CZ 457 Long Range Precision Gen2
- Kriss Defiance DMK
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- Beretta 686E 12g

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Re: Variation

#15 Post by jimbo303 »

In no way was I suggesting lying - I would like to make that totally clear.

If he has one already and wishes to build up more examples, then I was purely offering guidance from my personal experience with an FEO - who's issue was a "same calibre same action rifle" as to one I held currently - something a shooting collegue also came up against as they did not necessarliy grasp why someone would wish to have or more importantly show the need or requirement to have a duplicate of something they held already.

HO Guidelines refer to reasonable use as 3 times a year - but make reference to less usage for items of historic significance or value.

I was solely offering advice from my personal experience as I am aware some FEO's don't necessarily have a full knowledge of all the aspects of our sport/hobby.

J
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Re: Variation

#16 Post by Mattnall »

No problem, just the OP stated in his post that he wanted to start a collection.
As I said if that was the case then he needs to ask for collecting with occasional shooting as the reason, if it was more shooting and just wanted different types then your way would be perfectly fine.
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Good deals with Paul101, Charlotte the flyer, majordisorder, Charlie Muggins, among others. Thanks everybody.
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Re: Variation

#17 Post by TRG-22 »

Mattnall wrote:Many FEOs and departments are blissfully and/or wilfully ignorant of the law.
Which should be a sackable offence. And not just for that particular field of inexpertise - in everything.

Work for the DWP? If you make a determination regarding benefit eligibility, or lack of, which is subsequently overturned in an appeal, that is a disciplinary offence and it goes on your record.

Ditto parking enforcement officers.

Ditto that tw*t of a police sergeant who wanted to penalise that cafe owner. Never mind the question of how anybody as braindead as him ever got to be a sergeant, "being spoken to" is inadequate, unless the words spoken are "here is your written warning".

Ditto every single person who f***s up in their job to the detriment of others. If I f-up when driving my car, I don't get to say "oops, sorry", I get to say "guilty" or "not guilty" when I'm asked how I plead to the charge of dangerous driving, or driving without due care and attention, or causing death by.. etc.
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Re: Variation

#18 Post by Sim G »

Ovenpaa wrote:Some FEO's and licensing departments are against collecting as they say the firearms act makes no provision for it. Probably better to suggest different variants for different distances or disciplines or types of ammunition, plus you have an interest in the historical values of such rifles. A collection of reference books and a genuine knowledge or interest goes a long way as well.

13.58 to 13.64 of the Home Office Guidance to Police on Firearms Law covers the subject of collecting in regards to the FAC procedure. Suffice to say, it is fully permissible. As a taste, the first few sentences of that Guidance say...

"The collecting of firearms by a genuinely interested collector should be accepted as a “good reason” for the grant of a firearm certificate. There should be no blanket policy to prevent the collecting of modern firearms (though collectable firearms will tend to be of the Second World War or earlier eras)"
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

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Sim G
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Re: Variation

#19 Post by Sim G »

TRG-22 wrote:
Mattnall wrote:Many FEOs and departments are blissfully and/or wilfully ignorant of the law.
Which should be a sackable offence. And not just for that particular field of inexpertise - in everything.

Work for the DWP? If you make a determination regarding benefit eligibility, or lack of, which is subsequently overturned in an appeal, that is a disciplinary offence and it goes on your record.

Ditto parking enforcement officers.

Ditto that tw*t of a police sergeant who wanted to penalise that cafe owner. Never mind the question of how anybody as braindead as him ever got to be a sergeant, "being spoken to" is inadequate, unless the words spoken are "here is your written warning".

Ditto every single person who f***s up in their job to the detriment of others. If I f-up when driving my car, I don't get to say "oops, sorry", I get to say "guilty" or "not guilty" when I'm asked how I plead to the charge of dangerous driving, or driving without due care and attention, or causing death by.. etc.

Do you only ever come on here drunk?
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!
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Mattnall
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Re: Variation

#20 Post by Mattnall »

Sim G wrote: Do you only ever come on here drunk?
Or doesn't have the experience of dealing with various firearms departments.

Sometimes the ignorance of the law by police, and indeed that of many dealers and in turn FAC holders, beggars belief. I find that it is most likely due to the people employed have little to no previous civilian firearm ownership experience and are trying to cope with a fractured and basically not-fit-for-use law and relying upon 'common knowledge' or word of mouth for what should be done. "This is how we've always done it" doesn't make it right.

In my dealings with a couple of licensing departments (I moved counties) whenever a 'variance' has come up I have discussed the matter with them and more often than not it has been resolved satisfactorily after reading through various sources.
Arming the Country, one gun at a time.

Good deals with Paul101, Charlotte the flyer, majordisorder, Charlie Muggins, among others. Thanks everybody.
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