Latest fees consultation, Club fees increase £84 to £900

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GeeRam
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Re: Latest fees consultation, Club fees increase £84 to £900

#21 Post by GeeRam »

artiglio wrote: Its a pitiful state of affairs where a soverign nation is unable to find 700k/ a year to pay for legislation it has drawn up, as a country if we're having to dig so far down the back of the sofa to try and balance the books, then I fear the future for us and later generations is going to grim at many levels.
You're missing the point.......it's got nothing to do with saving 700k per year, or not being able to afford it. The UK wastes that amount or more per day on politically correct nonsense, or hand outs to all and sundry.
A mere £700k per annum for us compared to the £100m per annum bill just for MP's expenses alone.....
This is about making life as difficult as possible for us nasty evil people that enjoy shooting.
MistAgain
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Re: Latest fees consultation, Club fees increase £84 to £900

#22 Post by MistAgain »

The GCN has long wanted full cost recovery on anything to do with guns and shooting .
Robert303
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Re: Latest fees consultation, Club fees increase £84 to £900

#23 Post by Robert303 »

This is all part of the 'Make it more difficult' 'Make it more expensive' twin pronged attack to reduce the number of shooters. For years shooters got away with low subs and were sheltered from reality. The fees will be affordable as a lump sum depending on the size of the club and how well it has been run i.e. has it got a decent cash reserve.
Those clubs that are 1) Small and 2) Cash poor could well be in trouble.
They could run as .22 Galleries without approval BUT if you are not a member of an approved club the chances of you getting or keeping your FAC are slim if you only shoot targets. Obviously if ALL club members were individual members of the NRA / HBSA that might get round it but few clubs have 100% individual NRA membership.
It may be worth a few clubs amalgamating but so often the office holders are so desperate to cling to their titles that sensible amalgamations are stymied.

As Blackstuff says 'What about the fecking principal?' Are others such as the organisers of demonstrations paying the FULL cost of policing them? The discussion paper says we should be paying for the IT system. What IT system is it in place? At what cost? The Home Office are famous for expensive IT failures. I know as I saw one cancelled when I worked for the b******.

Every club needs to respond to this and HOPEFULLY the NRA will issue some guidance in the next few DAYS.
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Re: Latest fees consultation, Club fees increase £84 to £900

#24 Post by Christel »

I encourage all members of this forum to respond to the consultation, spread the word to friends and family to also respond to the consultation.
The more answers given the stronger we stand.

I know that Lincolnshire will submit their answer together with the forces it is working with to give a stronger answer.
Still waiting to hear from BASC.
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Chuck
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Re: Latest fees consultation, Club fees increase £84 to £900

#25 Post by Chuck »

You're missing the point.......it's got nothing to do with saving 700k per year, or not being able to afford it. The UK wastes that amount or more per day on politically correct nonsense, or hand outs to all and sundry.
A mere £700k per annum for us compared to the £100m per annum bill just for MP's expenses alone.....
This is about making life as difficult as possible for us nasty evil people that enjoy shooting.
clapclap clapclap clapclap :good: :good:

Who pays for the policing when roads are closed for cycle races, marathons, Orange Walks etc. As for demonstrations, look carefully at the one outside Harrods recently, more plods than demonstrators!

If police Scotland were not the only force in the UK paying VAT they would not need to pass on their (Scottish Executves) financial mismanagement to the shooting community by way of spurious fees.
Political Correctness is the language of lies, written by the corrupt , spoken by the inept!
hitchphil
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Re: Latest fees consultation, Club fees increase £84 to £900

#26 Post by hitchphil »

There are a number of angles to attack to this to use in any submission:

Its unfair & punitive compared to other full cost non recovery activities (footy etc) so is discriminatory to this sport vs others. (Footy do not pay for police outside grounds! vs police dont need to attend shooting facilities at all! There has been no election or consultation on FCR on society why then apply it without citizen consent & TAKE TAXES too?! IF FCR is applied then why not to Angling & other licenced sports too...........?

If Gov wants cooperation of shooters it needs to work with them not punish them. Clubs may then cease to help HO in reporting members etc I wonder how many air rifle owners retain their unlogged & unregistered air rifles & no certificate in Scotland?

The law of unintended consequences applies so people will react & Sect 11 will be used by many clubs.

The proposed measures kill off Uni & Youth activity clubs that generate the next generation of athlete for some disciplines. Disproportionately damaging our sporting image abroad & in future.

The Full-bore TR UK is top of the world in the game beating USA regularly & the only sport where Germany regularly comes LAST! :-) why damage that reputation & image abroad?

In Small bore TR we are in the top 10 world competitive countries & improving. Same in sporting Clays disciplines.

The figures used dont add up (see I Robertson post on full-bore FBook they are estimates & highly contrived).

There is no commitment by Gov to cost efficiency in the process that we know is bureaucratic & ineffectual & inefficient. Just escalating charges.

The cost benefit is very poor the cost of doing this is disproportionate to the positive (if any) effects. Better to spend on preventing criminal firearms than hindering legitimately held & managed.

Taxes & in this case a paltry amount are used in the best interests of wider society & licencing can be argued to fulfill that on behalf of non shooting community.

Why punish clubs when all 3 -4 perpetrators of recent atrocities came from outside the club environment. Clubs weed out nutters & idiots with the wrong reasons interests & desires. Clubs thus perform a service to Gov & society in ensuring the correct people are involved so clubs should be encouraged & assisted to train & apply peer review. SO the cost of the process should be spread over all FACs not only clubs & SGC too! (imho very poorly managed by Gov) & Clubs should be cheaper because we shoot together in designate places & support & manage each other. There is oversight & self regulation & the safety record of that speaks for its self. Land based SGC & FAC cannot claim this so arguably carry more risks so why not FCR on those to spread the cost.

Gov may well lend up with less revenue if aggregate clubs form by combining into one & Assocs could then then in effect take the licencing of Firearms out of police hands by buying & holding firearms for members & teams (small clubs can become teams in a larger composite club using their original & same identity) so 10 small clubs in one @ £900 vs £9000 revenue & similar losses in revenue for some FAC holders too.

If there is any evidence of GCN or what ever its called no then that too must be attacked too - that organisation is undemocratic & not representative of society why is its view heard?
Quality control of Scottish Ethanol. & RDX/HMX

& my fav chemical is :-) 1,3,7-trimethylxanthine.......... used to kill frogs.... but widely consumed & in vast quantities by the French? Eh?
Robert303
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Re: Latest fees consultation, Club fees increase £84 to £900

#27 Post by Robert303 »

@Hitchphil. Very good points well said.
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Re: Latest fees consultation, Club fees increase £84 to £900

#28 Post by Christel »

Christel
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Re: Latest fees consultation, Club fees increase £84 to £900

#29 Post by Christel »

I have just filled the survey in, I thought the questions were lacklustre...as if whoever wrote the survey didn't care about the answers.

A few tick this box questions and one where I could elaborate on who should be paying for the licenses.

wtf
GothicGhost
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Re: Latest fees consultation, Club fees increase £84 to £900

#30 Post by GothicGhost »

I would like to see them put higher fees on football players and have to pay extra to if they want to play lol.

Don't seem right they just do what ever they like and we can't do much about it :(
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